The Interview Answer That Lost Her the Job (and Set Her Up for 30 Years)

In her first round interview, Alicia Rose was asked about her dream job. She told the truth: she wanted to be an ambassador. The interviewer told her on the spot she wasn't getting the position, and explained exactly why that was the right call.

 What followed was a 30-plus-year career at a single global professional services firm, not because Alicia stayed in one lane, but because she didn't. She rotated through roles in risk management, training, mentorship, and client leadership. She worked in Prague, London, and back again. She built a reputation as a strategic, collaborative problem-solver, someone she describes memorably as "Mother Teresa meets MacGyver."

 In this conversation, Alicia and Monica explore what it actually looks like to build a meaningful career inside a large organization: how to know when to stay and when to stretch, what it means to define your personal brand, how to balance the demands of work and family without judgment, and why the question she asked in her second-round interview, "Where would I park my car?", turned out to be exactly the right thing to say.

 This is an episode about playing the long game, chasing the feeling behind the dream job rather than the title, and what it means to find your purpose somewhere between helping people and solving hard problems.

🎧 Listen to “Path Found Podcast”
Real stories of pivots, side quests, and scenic routes that inspire new possibilities.

📅 New episodes drop every Thursday.

👉 Subscribe & Listen: https://www.youtube.com/@PathFoundPodcast

★ Follow, rate, and share if you’ve ever taken the scenic route.

Get Involved:
🌐 See the work we’re doing at Keystone Network - Web: https://keystonenetwork.org
💬 Submit your comments, questions for guests, or suggest new guests you’d love to hear from!
📷Instagram: @pathfoundpodcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I think finding the job is hard. So just setting your expectations that it's going to take a long time and that it's a job to find a job, I think is important. At some point, again, knowing what you want out of an organization and knowing what types of organizations that you want to be a part of can help you narrow it down.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Hi everyone, and welcome to Pathfound, the podcast about the real, messy, unexpected journeys that lead us to the work we love. I'm Monica Argandonia, and every week I talk with someone whose story proves there's no single right way to build a meaningful life. In a first-round job interview, my guest today was asked about her dream job. She told the truth. She wanted to be an ambassador. The interviewer said, I'm not offering you this position, and then told her exactly why that was the right call. Alicia Rose went on to spend 30 plus years at one global firm, not by staying in one lane, but by continually reinventing her role around her values, her strengths, and her deepest instinct. Help people, solve problems, and never stop learning. Let's get started. Alicia, I'm so happy to have you here today and to have this conversation with you. And so if you could just start by telling us, you know, where where did you come from?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

What were you like growing up? So I'm the oldest of four kids, uh two girls, two boys, and so a big family. As a kid, I was born up in Providence, Rhode Island, but when I was 10 years old, we moved to Winter Park, Florida. And so, you know, as a kid, I was pretty into school. I wanted to do well in school. I played the violin and ultimately learned to play the cello and viola as well because the orchestra needed players in that space. And so I loved that. I tight group of a small group of friends, you know, through school that I would spend weekends and do things with them and that sort of thing. Also at school, I loved, I certainly loved math and science. Those were the two certain types of science, actually. I did not like biology, I did not like dissecting things, but I loved physics and calculus and math. And so in school, I kind of leaned towards thinking I'd want to do something in that place or space, but but wasn't really sure. So that's a little bit of of me sort of pre, you know, high school.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

Okay. So then in high school, is it are you figuring out kind of more what you want to do?

SPEAKER_01 2:21

And yeah, I'd say in high school, again, I was thinking, I did know I wanted to go to college. And ironically, I was like, oh, I want to go back up to New England. There was just sort of this. I had this vision of like college campus in the fall, you know, in Florida, they don't have all the seasons. And so I just had this vision that I wanted to go back up north to school. I thought, so thought for a moment I wanted to be an astronaut. So being in Florida, you could watch the space shuttle like launch and you could see it from my front yard and my backyard. Sally Ride, first American woman in space, when I was like 13 years old. I was like, that would be so amazing. And so I did think astronaut for a while. And completely other end, I thought maybe a lawyer. I don't know if I was influenced by like TV shows and that sort of thing, but I like to debate. I like to, you know, argue a position and that sort of thing. So in high school, I kind of thought I knew I wanted to go to college. I quickly ruled out astronaut, but leaned into engineering for a little while, thinking that that might be my space or place.

SPEAKER_00 3:24

So, did you end up in college on the East Coast?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

I did end up in college on the East Coast. I looked at a lot of schools back up north and ended up at Smith College. So, Smith College is one of the few all-women's colleges. And I hadn't set out to go to an all-women's college, but what was really interesting was during the tour, they had us watch a video and there were some rhetorical questions. And one of the questions was do you find yourself not raising your hand in class? Do you find yourself not speaking up, not sharing answers? And I was answering yes to this. And I couldn't believe it. I was really surprised. I was like, I'm I'm doing that, and that's not what I want to do. And I realized I could hone in really quickly. I was in an AP physics class, you know, roughly 30 kids, two girls. I was one of two girls in the class. And I just, yeah, and I just felt like, you know, if I ask a stupid question, you know, there are no dumb questions. But back then when you're 17, they're all dumb. Right. And so I found myself reflecting on that, you know, that question, that rhetorical question at Smith College, thinking, wow, maybe I could really benefit from a women's college, was accepted and decided to go there and loved it. I would tell you that and probably did exactly what that video was challenging you to do. Like, hey, let's build your confidence, let's build those skills, let's, you know, learn how to speak up in class. Let's learn, you know, it's okay to ask a question that might, you know, fall flat, et cetera. And so it was really, it was great for me. The other thing that I chose to do at Smith, I went for my junior year abroad, which was also very instrumental. I went to the London School of Economics for a year. I loved international travel. And so coming out of school, I did lean into, I'm like, hmm, is there an opportunity in the workplace that I could do something overseas or that sort of thing?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

So what did you major in? How did you pick that?

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Oh, yeah. So I majored in economics. And so Smith College is a liberal arts college. So I leaned into business. So I had decided at that point, I kind of let go of the astronaut idea and engineering. And I felt like economics was a broad enough field, gave me some sort of critical thinking skills. I liked the class, honestly. I liked it, you know, I first class I took, I really enjoyed it and thought it would give me a good base of, you know, an opportunity to expand from there. But I also at Smith, I tried to take a number of different classes to sort of test my interests. So I took a government class, I took some science classes, I just kind of expanded. There's a history class. So I just sort of stretched a little bit. And when I was at the London School of Economics, I actually took a law class. I took a couple international law classes there to sort of test that, you know, do I want to be a lawyer thing as well?

SPEAKER_00 6:12

All right. So you pick economics, you know, hey, I want to do something that involves travel. So what happens after do you what happens after that?

SPEAKER_01 6:21

So in my senior year of college, I'm deciding whether I want to get a job or do I want to go to law school. And I quickly decided the job route. Not rolling out law school eventually, but two things really drove that. One, the cost. I was coming out of school, I had student loans. I didn't know for sure I wanted to be a lawyer and I didn't want to go into debt further. So I thought, okay, let's work a little bit. The second reason was as I started to think about law school or being a lawyer, I framed back and said, hmm, what type of law would I want to practice? And I got very uncomfortable because there wasn't one I really looked for. I'm like, I don't think I want to be a prosecutor. What if I prosecute someone that's innocent? I don't think I want to be a defense attorney. What if I'm defending someone that's guilty? Like those two things canceled each other out pretty quickly for me. Do I want to get into family law? And that felt very emotional and sad. So I'm narrowing this down, going, okay, business law, international business law. So it got narrow pretty quickly for me around what I would really want to do, just knowing who I am and what would feel good. So I was like, okay, before digging into that, why don't you try working in business, right? Like, let's see if that's something you really want to do. So I put law school out. And then I really just started looking for lots of jobs. So I graduated college in 1992. I don't think the economy was that great. Someone can go back and do the total history on it, but it was hard to find a job. And I sort of threw my resume out to lots of different paths. I thought about teaching. So I knew I liked helping people. So I did think about teaching. I thought about Peace Corps, like hardcore helping people, like going into the Peace Corps or some sort of real nonprofit volunteering. And then I threw my resume into business, all sorts of businesses. Like, you know, you don't have a lot of experience at that point. And I did have some jobs in high school and things that that put me in that space a little bit, but no real resume builder. And I'm like, okay, I'll try lots of different organizations. There were companies that a lot of companies came on campus. So that was super helpful. And I went to those campus nights or drop resume drops everywhere just to learn, just to figure out like, what do these companies do? What are they looking for? Right. Like any sort of practice interview, practice on an interview that you may not really want. And then so you're better for the one that you do want.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

You know, today I think it's really the job market's still very hard to get a job. It's and so you have to put yourself out there. And, you know, we'll get to where you ended up. But as somebody who now, you know, is much higher up, just looking back at what you did, is that even still possible today? Is that how young people should be getting a job? Because it seems like everything's on LinkedIn or indeed and there's no communication.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

I think it's incredibly hard to get a job. I think it was back then and it was different back then. I can share stories about back then, but now I think it's still difficult for different reasons. I think certainly a network of people help and just telling people, letting people know what you're interested, what you're not interested in, what you like, what you don't like, and just putting word out there, whether it's through, you know, family and friends, old classmates from high school, classmates from, you know, local community college, college, etc., coworkers, right? Like spreading the word so people know because someone might find something and go, oh, you'd be perfect for this. So I think that's important. But I'll tell you, big organizations like through those types of websites are doing screening and and they may not get to know you, right? So it is hard. And I think that when a resume comes in or an idea, you know, someone comes in through someone already working at the company or working at the organization, it's helpful because there's almost that pre-screen. Like they know you, you know them. You kind of know as much, wow, I I like what Alicia does. Maybe this would be a place that I want to do it. So I think there's a lot to like getting to know people and sharing what you want to do. I do think I would share with you, I don't know if I'd still advise this, but when I was going through interviews, I had a philosophy, personal philosophy. I don't think I read this anywhere in this first interview, I did buy the book, meaning I never lied or anything like that, but I was much more formal, gave the answer that I thought was the right answer, right? Like all of that, because I wanted to get to the second interview. Because the second interview, I was gonna be myself, but I was actually interviewing them, right? Like your success at a company or in an organization or whatever you choose to do is often about the fit, right? And so I kind of knew myself, but I wanted to know them. And were they going to take me as me? And would I be able to stretch and grow? And so, you know, first round interviews were a little bit more formal by the book. And sometimes I got a second interview and sometimes I didn't. I'll share a story though of one time when I broke that rule. I was in a first-round interview to be a fund accountant. And I don't think I even really knew what a fund accountant did, but I was applying. I knew it had math and accounting and then business. And so I was answering all the questions and everything. And and this the interviewer asked me, she said, What's your dream job? Now remember, I'm in my first round interview. So your dream job should be something that the fund accounting path leads to, right? Like, oh, I'd like to be the CFO of the company one day or right. And so I said, You really want to know my dream job? And she said, Yes. And I said, I want to be an ambassador. I said, And then I went on to lay out why I wanted to be an ambassador. I love travel. I love studying different cultures, I love bringing people together. I love negotiating. I love helping people see, you know, the benefits that you can learn from different places and spaces. I love all these things. And she looked at me and she said, I'm gonna do something I don't do in interviews. And I'm like, I've got the job. This is great. And she said, I'm going to tell you right now that I'm not going to offer you the fund accounting job. In that moment, I was like, Oh, those ding letters are so much better. You put them in your dorm room and you can open them up and cry there. Like, what am I doing? And I'm stumbling and I'm like, Well, I really think I could be good at this, please. Is there something? Can you give me some feedback? And she said, Anyone that is so passionate and articulate about a dream job, being an ambassador, is going to be bored as a fund accountant. And so I took it and I still, I'm sure I probably said, Are you sure? Are you sure I could do this? I know I could do this. And I'm sure I sent her the classic thank you letter, right? Like after the interview. I have for many years wished I had saved her name and would call her again today because she was right. I would have been bored. I later learned, you know, and that sort of thing. And when I share that story with some people, some people say, Well, why didn't you go in to become an ambassador? And I think what I knew then, and what I knew enough about myself then, was the path to that was going to conflict with probably some of my personal values. And then it was gonna have a really hard time on the path to it. And it's very limited, right? Only so many countries, so many, you know, administrations that would take you, et cetera. So I knew it was very limited. And what I would tell you is that it's it's obviously stayed with me. It's a 30 plus year old story. And within my job, I look for opportunities to be the ambassador, to find the opportunities to bring cultures together, to travel and work in different countries, to negotiate things and that sort of thing. So that story helped me frame what I enjoy and what I like. And then I use it in the roles that I do get to play.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

That's awesome. That's great. So you finally interview for the job that you get. And there's a funny story there too about do you have any questions for us? Do you remember this? Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

So I get the second interview at the professional services firm that I now work for. And, you know, I had done all my prep and I had asked questions. And then the second round, I interviewed with three different leaders at the organization. And uh, and the third leader was a very senior leader. And he, you know, he asked me a number of questions. I answered them, and I was feeling pretty good. Again, my second interview is I'm interviewing them and I'm being myself and I'm thinking about whether this place fits me or not. And so I'm just me, curious learner, that whole thing. And I have to share. I had asked some good questions. And then he said, Do you have any other questions? And I said to a senior leader in this firm, I said, Yes. If I were to get the job, where would I park my car? Now, I use this example, right, Monica. You know this. I use it often now. I tell people, I'm like, you can ask me anything because look what I did in an interview. I asked where he parks his car. He took a moment to answer. He said, You know, I'm a senior leader, I park in the building, but he walked me over. We were in a big office. I mean, this was a senior person and there were windows. And he said, Well, I understand a lot of people, you know, a lot of the staff park over here at the channel. But also, if you take this role, you'll be out of clients. So you might drive to your client and that sort of thing. And so he answered my question. That was great. And I got the job, not because of that question, but I got the job. And I later asked somebody, senior, I said, Hey, you know, I'm thrilled that I have this job. But don't you think asking, like, where would you park your car? Is that kind of a dumb question? Like, should I have asked it? And the person said no. And they said, here's what that question does. First of all, you're not afraid to ask what you want to know. You're a curious learner, you want to know something, and you're not afraid to ask a person in power, right? Like a senior leader. You're willing to just straight up ask the question. That's what they want in this company. They want people to ask the questions, et cetera. They also said, it looks like you wanted the job, right? Like, where am I parking? Right. You're thinking ahead. I'm thinking ahead. Like I am planning, right? Like I'm ready for Monday. I also then share with a lot of people, I didn't even own a car at the time. Like I had a lot of steps that I needed to get to and a lot of steps, but I was like running through going, okay, if I get this job, I gotta get an apartment, I gotta get a car. Where am I parking? Like, by the way, Boston parking, it that should be part of the story as well. Boston parking is not easy. And so I'm sure the anxiety around that was there. But again, the second interview, ask what you want to ask, be who you want to be. And so, yeah, so it's a funny, it's a funny story that I continue to use to encourage people to ask questions. Like, you'll never ask me anything crazier than that. Ask what you want to know.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

So, all right, so you get that job. So, what do you what are you doing? Do you even know what you're what you're supposed to be doing?

SPEAKER_01 16:59

I don't know. Right. So the job, and so I took a job with a professional services firm. And so a professional services firm is one that does services for lots of other companies and organizations. So the reason I took it for a number of reasons. One, it's an international global organization. So I thought I'd have that opportunity to work overseas. Two, the program that I would be in, I would continue to learn. I would go to school nights and weekends to continue to learn more about business and accounting and things like that. So I was excited to continue that learning. And three, I was like, hey, I don't know really what I want to do. I'll get to see a lot of different industries. I might work at a hospital. I might serve a hospital. I might serve, you know, a production company. I might serve a technology company. I don't know. I'll get to I'll serve a bank, right? I'll get to serve a lot of different places, learn more about those businesses, and then decide really where I want to be. And so that was, those were sort of the drivers to say yes to this opportunity. And I'll tell you, that first week I was working full-time and taking classes. Now I know a lot of your listeners do that. And so I'm just gonna say, wow, it's a lot of work. Like I was very blessed that when I went through college, I was really able to just, I did some work study, but it was very part-time. I was able to focus on studying. And so I think working full-time and going to school is incredibly difficult. And I'll tell you, so when I started doing that, I was like, wow, how do I, you know, finish up college and and like wrap this up, like finish up this degree around, you know, the certification and that sort of thing. But I love the learning and love seeing lots of different organizations. And I think each time I just kept re-upping. Like you can leave a job any really anytime you want, right? Like, and so there are moments in time over my, I mean, I don't know if we've shared, but so I've been with the organization for 33 years. It'll be 34 in June. And there have been times along the way where I've thought, hmm, is there something else outside? Is there something different for me? And each time I do that sort of evaluation and self-reflection, and I I re-up, I choose to stay. And that's what's working, that's what's working for me.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah. So it's absolutely incredible you've been with the same organization for so long. That is pretty rare, but you haven't done the same job. So, what does it look like? I mean, one, you're in corporate America in the 90s and you're a woman. Yes. And if you could just talk about kind of what was it like to navigate that and those rules and how you were able to kind of keep moving up.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was it was very different. I was actually, we were just talking the other day, and this was more societal. That's about my personal company, but societal-wise. So back in the 90s, everyone wore in a corporate entity. You wore business attire. So none of this business casual jeans, hoodies, stuff like that. It was business attire. Nylons for women, and women had to wear skirt suits. And so I will never forget, probably a year or two in, one of the senior women in our in our organization wore a pantsuit, and someone saw her, and can one of my roommate actually also worked for the same company. She was like, I saw someone wearing a pantsuit. We're going shopping this weekend. So that was incredible. Again, back in the 90s, like there's a lot of societal rules that that impacted sort of, you know, women in certain ways. I think the way I chose to navigate, so one of the things that I think is super important is know yourself and continue to be yourself. But it's okay to expect more of yourself and grow, right? Like it's okay to grow and change, but know who you are at your core. And I I think that helped me navigate, you know, a world where, you know, there were more men than women working at some of my clients and some of my in inside the firm and that sort of thing. And so I think that that's important to know who you are. I was also very proud of the organization I joined because they were exploring and trying to look at why were there fewer women in the organization at the higher ranks. They actually, the year I joined, they had a very focused initiative around that, trying to understand and trying to, I'll just say, bust some assumptions. There were assumptions that, oh, women join the workforce and then leave to go have kids and then don't come back. And so some people do that. And that is one set, you know, that is a data point, but it's not everyone. And I would say there's I was very lucky. I had a very good support system inside the organization. Many of my sponsors and mentors were men, and they just believed there really wasn't a difference. They were like, You're highly talented. I'm putting you on this project. Let's go. And they would support me and stretch me and challenge me and that sort of thing. So I was really very, very lucky with a strong mentor and support system inside the organization.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

So, as you were moving around, what kind of jobs did

SPEAKER_01 22:00

You do what kind of projects and yeah, I often share with people because people go, Wow, you've been at the firm a long time. How do you stay in the thing for 30 plus years? And I have shared that I tend to change jobs inside the organization. For me, it follows almost like a four-year cycle. So think high school or college. And when I get my new boss in the organization, I sometimes share the story, but I say, Don't worry. First year in the role is like my freshman year, kind of rookie mistakes. At Smith, I had a 4 p.m. Friday class and like an 8 a.m. Monday class. That's a that's like some real rookie college mistakes, right? Absolutely, yes. Right. But by my junior year, I was at the London School of Economics with a four-day weekend, right? So I figure it out. So my first year in any role is a little bit bumpy, but I tell the boss, I'm like, don't worry, I still got A's and B's, but it was harder than it needed to be, right? Like, and so I'm learning the ropes, I'm testing, I'm stretching like skills and that sort of thing. In my second year, I feel more confident. That's what a year of new helps me build my confidence. And it's taken me a while to learn that. Like I didn't know that's what some of the hesitation was in some of the jobs. So I build my confidence. The second year I'm improving on it. I'm like, okay, now I know a little bit what to expect. Although most jobs are in a particularly in my industry, very unexpected things pop up. But I'll second job, you know, second year I'm I'm moving a groove, and the third year I'm really having an impact or stretching or doing some really innovative things, but I'm starting to look at what am I gonna do, sort of fourth year and beyond. So some of the roles core, I, you know, I learned my craft and my skills around like accounting and auditing and that sort of thing. So it was really important to have some base skills. But then what I really tried to do while continuing to serve clients, I tried to take some of those passion things like about being an ambassador or about teaching or about volunteering and weave those into the roles I played. So one of the roles I was a senior leader around risk management and that I got to work really closely with the Office of General Counsel team. So flexing those, did I want to be a lawyer? Well, I wasn't a lawyer, but I got to work with lawyers and I think they liked it because I respected them and valued them. And I just I got to play in that space a little bit. I love the idea of teaching. And so I have taught a lot of different trainings in our organization. I've designed some trainings, so I've gotten to do that a bit. Always in service of clients. We are in a professional services firm. You serve, you know, you serve clients. So I continue to do that. I've had the opportunity to lead some sponsorship and mentorship programs and do some individual coaching, which I love. And so I've really tried to lean into the opportunity to play my strengths, play my passion in a number of different roles. At some point over the path or over the career, I really honed in on what my purpose is. And there were some programs in our organization that helped you think about that and that sort of thing. But I've come to hone my purpose is helping people and solving problems. Now, what's great about that is it's very broad and big. I can do it at this organization, but I can do it in a lot of organizations. But knowing that that's what drives me and what gives me energy helps me find the roles I'm going to like, helps me realize when I'm not enjoying something, huh? I'm probably not helping people enough or I'm not solving enough problems. I sum it up as Mother Teresa meets MacGyver, but I I don't know if all your audience will know. I don't know if I'm too old to finish MacGyver, but Mother Teresa meets like helping people solving problems. And that's what gives me total, total energy. And so I look for roles like that.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

So most people, I think the assumption is corporations don't help people. This people in business don't help people, but that's all you keep going back to that. That's really important to you. So can you kind of clarify or like what is that role? How do you help?

SPEAKER_01 25:59

So a business or an organization has its own purpose, whether it's, you know, to manufacture and produce the best ice cream in the world or a car, right? Like so businesses have that sort of underlying, you know, function, I'll call it. And then an organization can really choose to, you know, how are we going to do that? What is our what are our values and what is the purpose? You know, how are we going to achieve that? And how are we going to do it? And so, you know, I looked for an organization. And I think people should look for organizations that have the values, you know, shared values or corporate values that matter to you. And so I'm very lucky, you know, when I when I joined, a lot of values were around teamwork and quality and integrity. That's important to me. And those continue throughout. They, you know, some organizations name them and they stay the same language, and that's that's good. And some evolve them. But, you know, I think businesses can help society, right, in the function that they're serving, but they can also help society in how they're doing it and how they behave in the day-to-day. And so when you have an organization that's made up of, you know, whether it's 50 people or a thousand people or a hundred thousand people, I think how you treat people matters, how you, you know, engage with them, help them achieve their full potential, right? Like when people join you right out of college, they don't necessarily know what they're doing and that sort of thing. And so, and you have a network in an organization. Again, it might be a small network because the company might be 20 people or it might be a larger network, but taking the time, and this is what I like to do, taking the time to understand that person's strengths, understand what that person could learn more of and sharing the feedback with them. I think that's important. And I help a lot of people, they've been in the organization for a couple of years and they go, hey, this place isn't for me. Okay, that's okay. So now let's talk about what are your strengths and what might be the place for you? What are you looking for? So that's how I like to help people because I just think I just think that's important. I think when you get to play your strengths and you get to, you know, achieve your full potential, you're going to enjoy whatever it is you're doing more. And I think there are a number of organizations and or people inside organizations. I think that might be what we have to do. Separate the companies are bad from the people in the company. So I think that's super important.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

And it seems like you also ended up in a company that I ended up, I chose a company, yeah, that fit well.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

And I chose a company. I don't know if I knew this. I mean, I already told you the reasons I chose the role, but I learned about the values of the company and have chosen stay because the values are important to me. One of the things I did early on, and it was again in my organization, it there's was a lot of training. And so I am, again, curious learner. I think a very successful, a trait of successful leaders is self-awareness. And what I often do is then I say, hold on, wait a second. It's accurate self-awareness because you may think you're self-aware and you're not, you know? And so you've got to understand yourself, but you also need to understand how other people are perceiving you or experiencing you and that sort of thing. So one of the things early in my organization, they gave us a little sort of personal values quiz. And they were about career values. There were 10 of them: things like economic security, family happiness, authority and power, involvement and teamwork, freedom and independence, being creative, right? Like those are those are all things that you could get in a job. And the quiz helped you prioritize them for yourself. And none of them are bad, none of them are right or wrong. They're just all unique things that different jobs might offer. And so I took it then back in the 90s. My number one has been and always continues to be, because I take it kind of every five years. I refresh and like, how am I doing? Family happiness has always been like one of my top ones. Early on, right out of college, economic security was one. Again, I came out with loans and I was a little bit nervous about taking on more. And so there was some of that economic security. I had a little bit of like sense of achievement. I wanted to achieve something. I wanted to get things done. I was very much like a doer and that sort of thing. Over time, those shift, a very distinct one. I have twins. When I'm when the twins were young, the new and challenging experiences dropped straight to the bottom because I did not need that at work. I was getting that filled totally at home. Right. That was being filled at home. And so I think what's important is like understanding yourself, like what's important. Okay, Bob, family happiness is important. And it is and was to me. Inside my organization, I had an opportunity to take on a role that would, again, I worked in the Boston office. It was a very different project. I didn't have all, it wasn't like perfectly aligned career path, but it was gonna be in Orlando for a period of time. And it meant I was gonna get to be in Orlando. My parents and my two young brothers were still at home. And I'm like, I'm gonna get to be there for like six or seven weeks. I can go camping on the weekend type thing, which I ended up taking my brother's camping one night. So I mean, like, so family happiness helped me decide a couple of those roles, right? So I think knowing yourself and knowing what you value in a career or in a job can really help you. And also when you're not feeling it, like if you're in a career or in a job and wow, you're just not feeling it, step back and go, huh, is it matching the values that I want? Or is that the issue? Is that where I'm stretching and going, I want to be creative, but this job has not let me fill that need. Right. So I think that's really important to know yourself.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

I think that's great advice because I think we talk so much about, you know, you got to be passionate about what you do and like it. But what does that actually mean? And I think, you know, I don't like my job or I like my job. I think people don't always realize it's hey, maybe this job just doesn't align with what's important to me. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

And that's why I don't like it. That's why I don't like it. That's exactly it. Like knowing your values and knowing your needs. There's another one, again, I guess I've shared I'm a curious learner, and my organization does a lot of training, which so I value that. Like I value continuous learning. Another training that I attended, they talked about McClellan's theory of needs and their sort of three motivators. And the three motivators are achievement, affiliation, and power. And everyone has, you know, some sort of pull for each of those. And the best leaders identify what their team needs and make sure they're filling that. But again, knowing yourself, so I am high affiliation. So important, like the relationships that I'm building on the teams, I'm more collaboration than competitive, those types of things. And I'm also high achievement. I want to get things done. And so anytime I'm not feeling it at work, I'm like, hmm, is there something about my team? Is there something about what we're doing? Is there something there that I need to fill or shift in order to be filling those needs? And so I think knowing these things and knowing myself is probably why I've been able to be successful, but also enjoy and like being at a place for 30 plus years.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Right. So you also brought up that one of the concerns, you know, in the workplace is oh, we bring women in, but then they're gonna go have children and a family and leave. And that's a reality. Some, you know, women choose that patch. And I think it's a difficult decision for women, especially those who have a choice. You know, a lot of women don't have a choice. Don't have a choice, yeah. And so how did you balance that? I mean, you you have twins. How did that work for you?

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Well, one of the things, and I I share this a a lot in any kind of advice I give. I share my story and it worked for me. It is not the right thing for everybody. I think one of the most important things is again for you to know what you need and you want, and then be solid and confident in that. There's so much judgment. I really find that people judge other people's choices, and I just don't think that it's not needed. I have not walked in anyone else's shoes, only my own. And I share what I share, but I will not, so I'll share the choices I made. But that does not mean I think the other choices are bad or devalue. Like, you gotta figure out what works for you and your family unit if if you're choosing to have children. And so I knew I wanted to continue working. My organization does allow for flex time or part-time. I know that for me, it's really hard for me to box things and put boundaries around them. And so I knew that I would have a hard time doing part-time. I just I knew it about myself. And so I decided I took I took a break for maternity leave. My firm supported that, which was very wonderful, and knew I was gonna come back full-time. And so, in that choice, though, then what I had to do is like, okay, how am I gonna be the mom I still want to be? And how are we taking care of the kids? So my husband is a teacher. He teaches at a school for kids with language-based learning differences like dyslexia. And so, one of the things is we talk about our, you know, the two of us were predictability and flexibility. So his job is very predictable. It starts at the same time every day, it's at the same location every day. My job is not predictable. There are days that my job is in Berlin. There are days that my job is in Houston, but it is a little bit more flexible. I can often plan to, you know, things that I've chosen to do. I've done the first day of school every year. I've chosen to be at that. That was something that was important to me. And so I've chosen how the, you know, the mom I want to be. I often share with people, I choose quality time over quantity. The quantity is a lot. I got a lot of things that quant need my time at work. I got a lot of things that need time with kids. So I try to make sure the time's very quality time. And then very, very tactically and practically, we decided when the kids were young that my husband's school had a daycare that the kids could go to at age 15 months. So we knew we wanted to do that. Again, that logistics would be a little bit more convenient. We knew the school, we were sad, you know, happy about that. We don't have a lot of family close by. You know, again, I shared my my immediate family is in Florida, his immediate family is in Los Angeles. So we knew we wanted to do daycare. And then we decided to hire a nanny for the, you know, sort of nine months to 15 months so that we could not have to move them from multiple daycares. That does not mean that that's bad. It means people may choose to do that, but that's what we felt worked for us and and I got comfortable with. I think one of the things I'd share a couple things, again, that non-judgment, like so many people share their story and then say, this is the way to do it, or you have to do it this way, or or they judge, or they say things like, oh, getting a nanny is bad, or putting them in daycare is bad, right? Like that doesn't help anybody. I think that's important. And I've also found like once you figure out what works for you, be confident and comfortable in it and let it work, you know? So I was super lucky growing up. My dad traveled a lot for work and I love my dad and I'm super close with my dad. And so I had a model that said a parent could travel and not be at home 24-7, and their kids could love them and you could love your kids. So I was very lucky to have that model to know and to be a little less afraid of it being a problem. So right.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

But like you said, we judge, and women are often judged harsher for being the one that travels or being the one that's away. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And we need to stop doing that to each other.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

Yeah, stop doing it to each other, right? Like, yeah, there's enough people that'll do it to you. Right. There was a I'm trying to remember the name of the book. My mom sent it to me. I think it was called I was a good mom before I had kids. And so, right, like everybody before they have kids, this is the way I would do it. I would never give a lollipop to a screaming toddler at the grocery store. I would never, right? Like, you have a whole set of rules and then you're dropped into those shoes. Yeah. And so I just I love that title. That's so true. So, so you did get to travel. I did get to travel, yes. I took, and this was pre-kids, I took two overseas assignments. I worked in the in Prague in the Czech Republic for what we call sort of a short-term three or four month assignment. I loved it. Again, that ambassador thing. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. I didn't speak Czech, but I learned a lot. And we had the team. It was really interesting. I came into the role. There had been some Americans over there the year before. And I'll just say I don't, from the stories that my Czech colleagues shared with me, the Americans that were there before me were not ambassadors kind and open. They just weren't who I wanted to be. And so, but what's interesting is that set a precedent. So I show up and the team's a little bit hesitant, like they're a little bit nervous. And they eventually shared with me. They said, Oh, well, the person last year wouldn't let us speak Czech in the room. And I said, Well, we're gonna speak Czech in the room. You're gonna teach me a word every day, and I'm gonna use that word like stapler, please thousand in the stapler, right? Like I'm gonna learn. And it just opened up the room for you know, great stories and sharing. And again, I was there to teach a lot of the technical things around the project and that sort of thing. And it was an amazing experience. And I truly I really loved it.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

And you were open to learning from them too. And I absolutely, right?

SPEAKER_01 39:36

I think I loved learning. I wanted to hear what their experiences were. I wanted to, you know, I wanted to learn more about the Czech Republic, about the history of the country, about their own experiences and growing up. So that's yeah, I was there. I was there to learn things that probably weren't work related. Yeah. And then I was there to teach some work stuff. I then later, so I did a longer term assignment in London, which was great. I again, I chose London because of the a little bit more of my career path and the field. I was studying a lot of financial services and serving that. And so London was a great space and place. I will tell you, the backup choice was the Cayman Islands. And my brothers, my brothers were very disappointed. They said the snorkeling is not good in the Thames. Like, why are you not choosing the Caymans? But I knew for a longer-term assignment, London was going to allow me to grow and allow me to learn a lot more and put a lot more challenges on my plate. And then there was a small irony while I was working in London, a large project opportunity came up in the Czech Republic. And people knew I had been there. And I said, sure, I'll go back. And so I flew from London back and forth to Czech Republic for a while on a project and really, again, enjoyed it. A little bit of that ambassador, you know, Ashley got to come in. So I was working with a with an organization. And my role was to help teach them and bring them sort of best practices from other financial, you know, countries and economic systems and that sort of thing. And my clients all were more senior, the majority were male. And when I say more senior, probably 20 years more experienced than me. I was a young professional. I was like 27 or 28. And they all spoke Czech. Many of them spoke English. I only spoke English. And we were planning for this big meeting. And I was like, how am I going to, you know, build credibility, convey what I need to convey, but also have them ask me questions. Like, I don't want to have a wall between us. And so I decided that to open this up. Now we had translators. So there were going to be, I was going to speak, and then there were going to be translators translating everything into Czech. And then, you know, the client would speak. And so I decided that I was going to learn two or three sentences in Czech to introduce myself and to sort of add a little bit of humor to share, hey, I don't bite. You can ask any questions, right? Like I want this to be open. And so I did. I had my team write this out. I learned those two or three lines. I shared them and it completely brought down all the walls in the room. And we only needed the translators for certain things. Those leaders, those senior leaders, chose to speak in English. They chose to be vulnerable. And, you know, it their English isn't perfect, but I was like, hey, it's better than my check. Watch this, right? Like I give them two or three lines. And it just opened up. And I am 100% certain that that meeting was better because I chose to be vulnerable and make sure we take down that wall. And again, the translators were there because they would say something and I would say something. I'm like, I'm not sure how to, how would you say this? And we would talk it through, but it was super important. And so again, that was that was my ambassador moment, right? Like I get to play those things and bring it into a business setting, making it better. You would have been a good ambassador. Thank you. But again, I love so I got to go global. I traveled overseas and lived and worked overseas, which I think was something really important to me that, you know, I wanted to experience it.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

But I think there's a lot of great lessons there in that you had this dream job. We might all have a dream job. And it's okay not to have that job because so many of these other possibilities, these opportunities bring in all those other pieces of what we think is the dream job. Absolutely. And you were you were just so open to that, you know? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

That's what I really that's why I super lean into your own strengths, your own superpowers, your own values, your own passions, and find them. Now, again, many of the folks on your podcast, it's amazing. They find them in lots of different jobs. And I think that's incredible. I also, my experience has been I can find them in the one organization in different roles. And that's just how I've been able to navigate it. I'll do a full circle moment. So want to be an astronaut. In my organization, I was serving on a committee in a project and I got to meet Sally Ride. Um That's incredible. It was amazing, right? And so I was like, I get to serve on this committee. I'm like, I was so excited, so amazing to meet, you know, Sally Ride was the first American woman in space in the 1919 eighty-three. I'm sure I watched the shuttle go up from my front yard. And so again, like I'm not an astronaut, but wow, I got to meet Sally Ride. So again, like I think you kind of look for those moments and things that you you get to experience and bring.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

So any regrets staying with one company or no regrets, but I would tell you that's probably who I am.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

Again, learning everything. You know, I've made mistakes. We won't talk about all those, but I learned from them, right? Like there are choices that I might do differently, either within the career or different projects and things like that. But certainly no, no significant regrets. And looking forward to, so my organization, we have sort of in my role, we have mandatory retirement. That's about five or six years out for me. And so I'm thinking about what's the 2.0. Like me, I'm listening to your podcast, going all sorts of ideas, right? Around what might I do next. Not because I've not enjoyed what I've done, but like, wow, I have a lot of experience. I still have passions. I have, you know, my personal values of what I like and how I want to spend my time and my energy. And so I am thinking about that. No word yet. No, don't know yet, but exploring and thinking about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Okay. So, you know, you've seen hiring in your company, you've bring brought young people in. What advice do you have for people in college coming out, trying to find a job, but even finding success in those jobs?

SPEAKER_01 45:37

I think finding the job is hard. And so, you know, there's sharing what you want to do and just spreading it everywhere to everybody you know, and just set yourself up knowing that you're gonna get the ding letter or the rejection, or by the way, not here at all. Like that's a thing now. You know, you send in your resume and nobody even writes back. So I think just setting your expectations that it's going to take a long time and that it's a job to find a job, I think is important. I do think at some point, again, knowing what you want out of an organization and knowing what types of organizations that you want to be a part of can help you narrow it down, you know, spread it wide. But like, do you want to be a big fish in a small pond or do you want to be a small fish in a big pond? Those are two very different experiences. And so I think kind of knowing a little bit more about yourself and knowing a little bit about some of the organizations to find that good fit, I think are are really important. Also knowing what you want to bring into the job, like how you want to show up. Again, so I know my strengths and I didn't know them right away, right? Like you start to, you I think you kind of find those over time, but knowing how you want to do the job, I think is very important. So at some point in time in my my organization, we were asked to define our brands, like our personal brand. And I was like, that's crazy. What do we what do you mean define your personal brand? Like it took me a moment to even figure out what that meant. And it's not what you do, right? So, like when you think about a brand, the best example I've heard is like a hotel chain, right? So all hotels have rooms, have beds, have bathroom, have towels, right? But the brand is more about the experience. And so the brand is more about like if you're doing a project, if you're doing something in accounting, you know, how are you showing up collaborative or competitive? Are you showing up just sort of what your brand is? Are you more of a strategic thinker or much more tactical? And so again, self-reflection helps you understand how you're going to do the job. And you want to make sure that place gives you the space to do it the way you're gonna excel. And so I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

That's interesting. The brand to think of your brand.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Another piece of advice someone gave me is this keep it short, make sure it fits on a t-shirt. Now I do not have the t-shirt, but my t-shirt would read strategic thinker, creative, collaborative problem solver. And then I put dot dot dot and on the back it says get stuff done. And that's like if you ask, so here's the thing, remember I said accurate self-awareness, right? So I may want that to be my brand, but if you ask 15 people that work with me and none of those words come up or resonate, that's probably not my brand. Right. So to figure out what your brand is, you gotta ask people, hey, what's it like working with me? Like, give me three words to describe working with me, like, or give them some choices, like, am I more collaborative or competitive? Am I right? And so what's interesting is once you know your brand, when you're looking inside an organization for another role, you can be very clear. Here's who I am. And is that what you're looking for? Because if my new boss wants, you know, doesn't want collaborative, he wants more competitive, driven, authoritative, whatever he wants, I'm going to have a really hard time at this point stretching away from that brand. And so it's important to know yourself and know your brand. And by the way, if you find out your brand isn't what you want it to be, you can change that. You can work on that, right? That's why it's important to know if it resonates or not.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Alicia, that is great. I mean, one, you've had such a great career, and it's clear why you are as as successful as you are. But the great advice and just thank you. Thanks so much for sharing all of that. Can I share one more story, Monica? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 49:25

Okay, so one more, but it's about the origin story because I really love this one. So back in the 1990s, when you were looking for a job to learn about the company, I mean, we didn't have the internet to learn about the company. You either went to the library and got lots of books and found the organization, or you could call the company and ask for brochures. And so I was interviewing with a lot of different places and I was keeping my parents up to date. I told my dad about a company I was gonna interview with, and I didn't know a lot about it, and neither did he. So he decided to call the local branch of this organization and ask for brochures and things. And then he packaged them up and he sent them to me at Smith and he wrote a note that's still hanging, I'm gonna read it to you. It still hangs in my in my home office today, and it's super special. It's dated February 27th, 1992. It says, Dear Alicia, I received the enclosed information. You may find it helpful to review it prior to your follow-up interview. The company looks like a strong company with some good programs. Hopefully, things will work out for the best for you, love dad. That is the company that I'm at and have been at for 30 plus years. And so I often say it did work out for the best for me, but I had a lot of support. Look, I that was my dad reaching out to the company, asking for brochures, and just giving me that encouragement around, you know, hey, this one might be a good one for you. And so I think, you know, your early networks, share it everywhere and and see how they can help. That's awesome. And I love that you still have that note. I do. I love it. I love it. And it just so happens. I mean, he probably sent me others with other companies. But this one's this one I saved, and this is the one that that has really worked well for me.

SPEAKER_00 51:05

So and we really just dated ourselves when we went to free to go look at. I went to the library, that's the whole thing. Like, that is so funny.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Anyway, thank you. Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

This has been wonderful. Thank you so much for listening to Pathfound. If anything we talked about today connected with you or gave you a new perspective, we'd love it if you subscribe, left a review, or shared the episode with someone you care about. You can also find us on Instagram at Pathfound Podcast. To explore more stories, resources, and ways to get involved, visit Keystoneetwork.org. This podcast is just one part of the journey. A Keystone Network, where helping young people and anyone figuring it out as they go build meaningful futures one step at a time. A huge thank you to my podcast editor, David Strutt. You can find him on LinkedIn for helping bring these stories to life, and to Elizabeth Minor at Silvermine Creative for the beautiful artwork and web design. And if you're on your own path, navigating the unknown, making a pivot, or simply figuring it out as you go, just know you're not alone. The route may not be linear, but there's always a way forward. I'm Monica Argandonia, and I'll see you next time on Path Found.